Victoria16 mei 2007 – 10:02

Your organization wishes to empower Muslim women through education and legal advocacy. You also treat serious matters such as domestic violence. How do you proceed to create awareness about these problems within the Muslim community in the United States?

First of all we understand that Muslim men and women take their religion seriously. So in order to do anything in the community, we have to first understand ‘what is the Islamic position about these topics’. So the first step is to develop a jurisprudence, what Islam really says, what does the Qur’an say and the Hadith and the early scholars... Once we have that ready, we educate. We educate women who come to Karamah, we educate at mosques, at universities and whoever invites us. And for example, on the issue of women’s rights, most recently we were invited to an Islamic centre Mukhtar Mai of Pakistan. A woman who was raped, gang-raped as a way to retaliate against her brother. Now that happened unfortunately in a Muslim society and we know that rape is not condoned at all by Islam, so how could that happen? We brought her to talk about her story, we had someone comment about the Pakistani society. And then we also commented about the Islamic point of view and what Islam really says about behaviour like that. The attendence was full, the room was half men and half women. Which was amazing, because I thought that the women would have been more numerous than the men. Not true, many of the men were as interested in the topic and as enraged about the behaviour as the women. So this is what we do.

How is the response afterwards? How does the community take action against this violence?

You know, first of all, the reaction is very positive, this is a very important step, we have not done this in the Muslim community in the United States before, so the fact that men and women hear new ideas and critical ideas about the behaviour, maybe of their own country or their own tribe, you know. Because we talk about a lot of cultures doing the wrong things when it comes to Islam. And the fact that they start to think about it, accept the criticism and decide to live more the Islamic way, gives the women support. It gives them strength. We do not have organizations within the mosques, but we have in the past and we will continue having ‘halaqas’1 where women can come and raise issues. But because many American Muslim women are working, it is difficult for them to come and meet after work.

Do you have other, interactive possibilities, via your website?

We have an educational website which a lot of women all over the world look at, they ask us questions, they call us, they seek our help. We also, just recently, started a program. We also received phone calls from Muslim women with problems and referred them to various services, but now, more recently, we are also educating the service providers about Islam and about culture, so when Muslim women come to them, they will deal with them the proper way, without offending them.

Often the image of Muslim women in the media is not comparable to real life. How do Muslim women in United States counter this problem? What do they do about it?

I think, instead of worrying too much about how the others see us, it is more important for Karamah how we see ourselves. Many Muslim women have internalized the view of the others of us, and that makes them frustrated and weaker. One of the women who came and followed our classes said that the most important thing that happened in her life was that she became at peace with herself, she understood that wearing the hijab is not a disadvantage, that she is smart and has a lot to offer. So she went out, looked for a job and she got it.

You are actually giving more self-esteem to these women.

Exactly, that is more important than worrying what the outside world is telling us. Now I am not saying that we do not try to talk to the outside world and correct the impression of women, but I think the issue is “how to empower Muslim women so they can speak out for who they are.” They are more self confident.

How can Muslim women in Europe make things better for themselves, knowing that there are a lot of issues with the hijab ban in schools and work environments? Which concrete actions must we take?

I think we need to sit and talk to each other about what Islam requires of people, Muslims, including women. It is unfortunate that the Muslim woman cannot have a free choice, about whether she wants to wear the hijab or not. But basically I think, under Western principles of democracy, I think people should be entitled to freedom of exercise of their religion and I have been saying that. At the same time, I also pointed out, that by providing rules, solid rules, saying “if you wear the hijab, you cannot come to school”, they have disadvantaged the very women they claim they want to help, which are the Muslim women who wear the hijab. So that doesn’t work very well. I also ask the Muslim women not to allow themselves to be disadvantaged and to find a way around all this, so that they can get education and move forward in society. You can’t let the majority in society pass laws that are going to continue keeping you away from the heart of the matter. American Muslims, for a long time, thought that maybe what they should do is live in their own little communities and not worry about the system. But after 9/11 they realized that this was a really big mistake and now there is one congressman who is a Muslim. There are many on lower levels of government, also in the federal government there are many Muslim employees, including at the White House. So I think it’s important for Muslims to be everywhere, as is their right to be, when they belong to those countries where they’re seeking those jobs. And they should not be easily discouraged from seeking education which will put them in the right places for these jobs.

So they need to search for alternatives, when possible...

Absolutely. What can I tell you? A Muslim woman who really feels she shouldn’t show her hair is going to have real problems with the ban. You need to figure out what works best to help what is called the “Maslaha” among Muslim jurists, the public interest of the Muslim community. How can you advance it? Sometimes you have to make some compromises which is the law of necessity “daroura.” But hopefully not too much of that. I mean you don’t want to loose your Muslim identity because of these rules, but at the same time, let’s be creative, let’s find ways so we can still advance in this society and also help them to understand our point of view. I have a feeling when you explain our point of view in a very rational, Western way, they will come to respect it. So we have some work ahead of us, and we should try all sorts of alternatives to get there, but the Muslim community must take the deserted seat at the table of the Western Community.

Actually you encourage Muslims to be part of the dialogue and not be absent at any lectures about Muslims.

The Islamic authentic voice should be in the front. If you’re absent from it, some other people will decide your faith. This is not Islam.

Karamah is working in coorporation with other countries. Do you have some organizations in Europe who are working with you?

We will. We are in the process of examining all these possibilities, we want to take it very easy and very carefully, how we step into the European scene. We want to be people who are supporters of the European Muslims. We’re not bringing you a model from overseas and telling you “this is what you’ll have to follow”, and we don’t want to make our alliances too quickly, because we don’t want to get into situations we don’t know anything about. We are completely non-political and we will not make any political alliances, this is not what we do. At the same time, if we are going to have an alliance with some Western women’s organizations, we want to know what they believe. What if their belief is not consistent with ours? So we are now in the middle of trying to determine this.

So what is your agenda for next year? What kind of new topics will you try to analyze?

I think that the agenda for next year is to move forward the bridge between Europe and the United States. Get the Muslim women on both sides of the ocean to talk to each other and figure out what our problems are and how we can help each other to find a very good solution.

Website: www.karamah.org
Biography of Dr. Azizah al-Hibri: http://www.karamah.org/bio_azizah.htm